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For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.
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Otis  
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 More options Aug 9 2009, 10:27 pm
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: Otis <otisbr...@embarqmail.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Aug 9 2009 10:27 pm
Subject: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.
Dear Mike,

Subject: In your office you are a GOD.

Re: And the "patient" must hang on every word you say.

Futher, my remarks about your "recommendations" for plus-PREVENTION
can indeed get you FIRED, and you lose the benifit of your $100,000
education.

No, I can't ask you to take that kind of risk -- at all.

But even if you made the recommendation -- ALL WOULD DEPEND, NOT ON
YOU -- BUT THE PERSON HIMSELF.

Thus, as I pointed out, Fred was successful, because he recognized
this issue for what it is -- AND DID IT ALL UNDER HIS (NOT YOUR)
CONTROL.

But, 100 years ago, another medical doctor recognized this "problem".

A "solution" CAN NOT BE MEDICAL.

But rather it MUST BE by the insight and judgment of the "educated"
person himself.

Here is the medical review:

==========

Subject:  Medical Recommendation for plus-prevention.

Here is the publication of a medical doctor who:

1.  Deduced that prevention would be possible to prevent (before the
minus), and

2.  Stated that the "public" (you and I) would most likely REJECT
this method -- because of the judgment required to do this
effectively.

3.  Recognized the Snellen-clearing would be possible, but not
much beyond the -1.5 dioter (20/60) stage.

Enjoy,

Otis

     =================================

     By Chalmer Prentice, M.D.

     Transcription (c) A.  Wik, 2004

     ----------+ | Chapter IX | +--------

     The following are some very interesting experiments in myopia
which can be verified by any operator, and which prove that
refractive myopia depends on ciliary spasm, and that, even in
axial myopia, considerable repression can sometimes be made at the
near point.  In either class of cases, repression must be made at
the near point.  In various lengths of time, we shall be able to
reduce the myopia one or two dioptres, sometimes more.  In most
cases satisfactory results will require considerable time and
patience; but a few experiments after the following example will
suffice to show that in some very advanced stages of myopia, it is
possible to suppress, or at least check, its onward course by
repression at the near point.

     This fact renders the fitting of minus glasses to myopic eyes
an open question.

     EXAMPLE CASES

     Age forty-three; myopia; had been wearing over the right eye
-1.25 D, left eye -1 D, with little or no cchange for the space of
two years; eyes in use more or less at the near point.  I
recommended the removal of the concave glasses for distant vision
and prescribed +3.50 D for reading, writing and other office work.

     After reading in these glasses for several days, the patient
was able to read print twelve inches from the eyes.  This patient
was of more than ordinary intelligence and understood the aim of
the effort.  In six months I changed the glasses for reading and
writing to a +4 D without seeing the patient.  After using the +4
D glasses for several months he again came under my care for an
examination, when the left eye gave twenty-twentieths of vision,
while the right eye was very nearly the same, but the acuity was
just perceptibly less.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

     Similar results have been attained in 34 like cases;

     ...but the process is very tedious for the patients, and
unless their understanding is clear on the subject, it is almost
impossible to induce them to undergo the trial.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Comment:  Anyone considering "prevention" must understand this
       issue.  There is no "easy way" of prevention.  As Chalmers
       said -- the person must fully understand this issue.  It is
       for this reason that I suggest full transfer of "control"
       to the person himself.  If he lacks the motivation to look
       at the chart, and "clear" himself, then no "third party"
       (i.e., OD) can do it for the person.  This is why I
       separate a true-medical problem from preventing a negative
       refractive status in the natural eye.  I believe that the
       above statement simply clarifies that point.  OSB]

________________________

Subject:  Realizing the truth

Dear Scientific friends,

Subject:  Second-opinion on preventing negative refractive states.

     I suggest that there is a profound difference concerning "pure
science" and "pure medicine".  And I suggest the difference is
this:

Medicine:  Must deal with a great mass of people walking in off the
           street.  There might be some "intelligent" people but
           that can never be the assumption of the medical doctor.
           The result is that we get "canned" procedures that
           "work" instantly.  I consider that people in this
           profession have no choice but to conduct that kind of
           work -- and I would do the same thing IN THEIR
           PROFESSION.  That would not make it "right" but I do
           understand them -- and what they are doing.

Science:   Must "step back" from that situation, and think about the
           behavior of the natural eye as a dynamic system.
           Engineers and scientists simply do not deal with
           children, nor with others that do not understand
           the need to work on prevention with the plus.

     But when you ask very fundamental questions about whether a
population of eyes (primates) are dynamic, you get the
"second-opinion" answer, that POTENTIALLY a negative refractive
STATE could be prevented -- before the minus lens is applied.

     I believe that pure science (i.e., the SCIENTIFIC -- not
medical experiments -- proves this point.) But that is the nature
of our arguments.  Many concepts in science simply can never be
reduced to "medicine" and we should understand that truth.

     This how we should separate "medical issues" from scientific
concepts -- experimental and objective testing.

     But that is why it took a scientist like Dr.  Stirling
Colgate to do the "work" correctly and clear his vision from 20/70
to normal.

     His statements are confirmed by direct experiments with the
primate eye, again on a pure-scientific (not medical) level.

     Please use the term "refractive state" where the natural eye can
have positive and negative refractive status (as a dynamic device)
and this analysis will become much clearer.

Best,

Otis


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Mike Tyner  
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 More options Aug 10 2009, 1:35 am
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: "Mike Tyner" <mty...@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 17:35:57 -0500
Local: Mon, Aug 10 2009 1:35 am
Subject: Re: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.

"Otis" <otisbr...@embarqmail.com> wrote

> Subject: In your office you are a GOD.

Why, thank you!

> Re: And the "patient" must hang on every word you say.

They pay me for advice. They don't have to take it. They're free to take the
advice of any internet looney they prefer.

> Futher, my remarks about your "recommendations" for plus-PREVENTION
> can indeed get you FIRED, and you lose the benifit of your $100,000
> education.

A couple of wrong assumptions there but I don't care if you don't.

> But even if you made the recommendation -- ALL WOULD DEPEND, NOT ON
> YOU -- BUT THE PERSON HIMSELF.

Might work, might not. If you don't mind, I'll stick to advice that works.

> Thus, as I pointed out, Fred was successful, because he recognized
> this issue for what it is -- AND DID IT ALL UNDER HIS (NOT YOUR)
> CONTROL.

So Fred claims he was able to reduce his axial length?

> But, 100 years ago, another medical doctor recognized this "problem".

100 years ago, like you, doctors didn't recognize the difference between
anecdote and "proof."

> A "solution" CAN NOT BE MEDICAL.

So you proceed with an example written by a medical doctor.

Otis, you're still gullible after all these years.

>     Please use the term "refractive state" where the natural eye can
> have positive and negative refractive status (as a dynamic device)
> and this analysis will become much clearer.

A surface that refracts too strongly is called "too positive" in university
science.

In Otis science it's a "negative refractive state."

Got it.

-MT


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Neil Brooks  
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 More options Aug 10 2009, 1:58 am
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: Neil Brooks <neil0...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:58:29 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Aug 10 2009 1:58 am
Subject: Re: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.
On Aug 9, 1:27 pm, Otis <otisbr...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Mike,

> Subject: In your office you are a GOD.

In every world of which I am aware, you are an idiot.

> Re: And the "patient" must hang on every word you say.

And wise observers will ignore ALL of yours.

> Futher, my remarks about your "recommendations" for plus-PREVENTION
> can indeed get you FIRED, and you lose the benifit of your $100,000
> education.

Because there's no evidence that it works.

Got any??

If so, then ... why have you never offered it?

Hmm.

Wow.  You really are an idiot, Otis.


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Neil Brooks  
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 More options Aug 10 2009, 2:22 am
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: Neil Brooks <neil0...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 16:22:49 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Aug 10 2009 2:22 am
Subject: Re: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.
On Aug 9, 1:27 pm, Otis <otisbr...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

>      Please use the term "refractive state" where the natural eye can
> have positive and negative refractive status (as a dynamic device)
> and this analysis will become much clearer.

But ... not surprisingly ... the results, in humans won't change.

And isn't that really what's important?

Perhaps not to you, but then ... you're an idiot, so ....


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Dr Judy  
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 More options Aug 10 2009, 3:55 am
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: Dr Judy <mpac...@rogers.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 17:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Aug 10 2009 3:55 am
Subject: Re: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.
On Aug 9, 3:27 pm, Otis <otisbr...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Mike,

> Thus, as I pointed out, Fred was successful,

But Fred freely admits that he is still myopic, his myopia was not
prevented nor reversed by plus lens use.  And he still uses his minus
lenses for night viewing.  I would not call that "successful".
Successful for me would be refractive error changing to plano or low
plus.

So you want ODs to advise patients with about -1.00D (like Fred) to
not use their glasses in the daytime, just at night?  We already do
that; most of us would tell a -1.00D myope to use their distance
glasses "whenever you need to see more clearly".   No plus lens or
other therapy needed, they can simply choose to not use glasses when
sharp distance VA isn't needed.

Judy


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Otis  
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 More options Aug 10 2009, 4:37 am
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: Otis <otisbr...@embarqmail.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:37:12 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Aug 10 2009 4:37 am
Subject: Re: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.

Dear Judy,

Subject: Don't bother attempting to save a man trashing in the water
-- about to drown.

Re: Don't throw him a life preserver -- after all he is going to sink
to the bottom and die anyway.

Your efforts to "save" him will just upset him.

=========

This is why I gave up on majoiry-opinion optometry a long time ago.

This is why I have my own trial-lens kit and verify my Snellen at
20/20 and my refractive STATE at +1/2 diopter.

Now that I know you give up on a person (when he has a fighting chance
at prevention) I realize I must protect my distant vision under my
control.

Your are no help at all.

Engineering prevention best,

On Aug 9, 8:55 pm, Dr Judy <mpac...@rogers.com> wrote:


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Neil Brooks  
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 More options Aug 10 2009, 5:20 am
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: Neil Brooks <neil0...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Aug 10 2009 5:20 am
Subject: Re: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.
On Aug 9, 7:37 pm, Otis <otisbr...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Judy,

Is there anything as disingenuous and insulting as actively
disregarding what a person actually said?

My GOD, but you're an idiot, Otis.

> Subject: Don't bother attempting to save a man trashing in the water
> -- about to drown.

> Re: Don't throw him a life preserver -- after all he is going to sink
> to the bottom and die anyway.

> Your efforts to "save" him will just upset him.

Life preservers are proven safe and effective.

Have any proof of efficacy and safety for plus lenses ... or ... are
you just talking out your ass, as always?

That's rhetorical, Uncle Otie.  You're an idiot.

BUT ... it WOULD make you less of an abject ASSHOLE if you actually
deigned to respond to what Dr. Judy ACTUALLY SAID.

But you won't.

So you are.


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Neil Brooks  
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 More options Aug 10 2009, 5:28 am
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision
From: Neil Brooks <neil0...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:28:54 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Aug 10 2009 5:28 am
Subject: Re: For Mike -- Who is in control of a person's visual acuity.
On Aug 9, 7:37 pm, Otis <otisbr...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> This is why I gave up on majoiry-opinion optometry a long time ago.

> This is why I have my own trial-lens kit and verify my Snellen at
> 20/20 and my refractive STATE at +1/2 diopter.

OhByTheWay: who did your cataract surgery, you flippin' idiot??

GOD, you're a moron.  It's ab-so-lute-ly astounding.

Or ... have you still retained a soft spot in your fetid heart for
"majoiry-opinion" [sic] ophthalmologists??

What a loser you are, Uncle Scrotis.

Unbelievable.


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