the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support for this cause even though nothing materialised. although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their absence. i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really call that competition when my competitors play more white. please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.
I think it was sad that Omondi could not make it. I think the place should have been given to Makumi instead.
I still cannot get it. Omondi should have told the OC that he was not going to make it and let someone else get this chance of a lifetime. Russia!!!!!!!!!!!! Land of Vodka, Ice and Beautiful women!!
I think the two withdrawals have made life difficult for the players taking part and also made made life difficult for the OC
On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote: > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > absence. > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Kenya Chess Forum" group. > To post to this group, send email to kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > kenya-chess-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<kenya-chess-forum%2Bunsubscr ibe@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/kenya-chess-forum?hl=en.
> I think it was sad that Omondi could not make it. I think the place should > have been given to Makumi instead.
> I still cannot get it. Omondi should have told the OC that he was not going > to make it and let someone else get this chance of a lifetime. > Russia!!!!!!!!!!!! Land of Vodka, Ice and Beautiful women!!
> I think the two withdrawals have made life difficult for the players taking > part and also made made life difficult for the OC
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . >> initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven >> number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support >> for this cause even though nothing materialised. >> although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi >> didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their >> absence. >> i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really >> call that competition when my competitors play more white. >> please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Kenya Chess Forum" group. >> To post to this group, send email to kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> kenya-chess-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<kenya-chess-forum%2Bunsubscr ibe@googlegroups.com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/kenya-chess-forum?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Kenya Chess Forum" group. > To post to this group, send email to kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > kenya-chess-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/kenya-chess-forum?hl=en.
Thanx Kim Omondi should actually have been replaced with Wambua who was position eleven in the 2nd qualifiers. I was position twelve after the ill-fated game!
I sympathise with Mathea for having five games to play with black and only two as white. I have always insisted on the white's first move advantage at least in the kenyan context! Statistics should prove me right.
Oyamo ought to have been given a chance to play his games since he has been released! But the O.C must be a very rigid stucture of individuals! Common sense is not always common!
I wish every qualifier a good luck in their last leg to the Olympiad. And Mehul should qualifier in order to break the jinx!
Have an enjoyable weekend all
Makumi What you see depends on what you are looking for.
--- On Fri, 2/5/10, kim bhari <kimbh...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: kim bhari <kimbh...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [KCF:11538] Support RC, i beg To: kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 10:04 AM
I think it was sad that Omondi could not make it. I think the place should have been given to Makumi instead.
I still cannot get it. Omondi should have told the OC that he was not going to make it and let someone else get this chance of a lifetime. Russia!!!!!!!!!!!! Land of Vodka, Ice and Beautiful women!!
I think the two withdrawals have made life difficult for the players taking part and also made made life difficult for the OC
On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances .
initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven
number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support
for this cause even though nothing materialised.
although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi
didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their
absence.
i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really
call that competition when my competitors play more white.
please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Kenya Chess Forum" group.
To post to this group, send email to kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to kenya-chess-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 4:37 PM, SAMUEL MAKUMI <samimak...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Thanx Kim > Omondi should actually have been replaced with Wambua who was position > eleven in the 2nd qualifiers. I was position twelve after the ill-fated > game!
> I sympathise with Mathea for having five games to play with black and only > two as white. I have always insisted on the white's first move advantage at > least in the kenyan context! Statistics should prove me right.
> Oyamo ought to have been given a chance to play his games since he has been > released! But the O.C must be a very rigid stucture of individuals! Common > sense is not always common!
> I wish every qualifier a good luck in their last leg to the Olympiad. > And Mehul should qualifier in order to break the jinx!
> Have an enjoyable weekend all
> Makumi > What you see depends on what you are looking for.
> --- On *Fri, 2/5/10, kim bhari <kimbh...@gmail.com>* wrote:
> From: kim bhari <kimbh...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [KCF:11538] Support RC, i beg > To: kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com > Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 10:04 AM
> I think it was sad that Omondi could not make it. I think the place should > have been given to Makumi instead.
> I still cannot get it. Omondi should have told the OC that he was not > going to make it and let someone else get this chance of a lifetime. > Russia!!!!!!!!!!!! Land of Vodka, Ice and Beautiful women!!
> I think the two withdrawals have made life difficult for the players taking > part and also made made life difficult for the OC
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=aadoni...@gmail.com> > > wrote:
>> the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . >> initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven >> number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support >> for this cause even though nothing materialised. >> although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi >> didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their >> absence. >> i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really >> call that competition when my competitors play more white. >> please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Kenya Chess Forum" group. > To post to this group, send email to kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > kenya-chess-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<kenya-chess-forum%2Bunsubscr ibe@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/kenya-chess-forum?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Kenya Chess Forum" group. > To post to this group, send email to kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > kenya-chess-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<kenya-chess-forum%2Bunsubscr ibe@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/kenya-chess-forum?hl=en.
Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > absence. > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.
White can make mistakes and still get a draw. Not so easy for Black. It is okay for a player to take color in stride, but the organiser has responsibility to keep colors as even as possible.
On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in > the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both > and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no > uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white > has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason > you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings > is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course > the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are > constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the > puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember > the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the > black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, > Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play > for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings > with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
> Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> On Feb 5, 11:12 am, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > > absence. > > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.- Hide quoted text -
There may be someone there who is playing with 5 White and 2 Black, and if he happens to squeeze into the team ahead of someone else, the arbitration committee may need the wisdom of Solomon.
On Feb 7, 4:22 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> White can make mistakes and still get a draw. Not so easy for Black. > It is okay for a player to take color in stride, but the organiser has > responsibility to keep colors as even as possible.
> On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in > > the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both > > and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no > > uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white > > has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason > > you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings > > is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course > > the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are > > constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the > > puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember > > the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the > > black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, > > Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play > > for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings > > with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
> > Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> > On Feb 5, 11:12 am, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > > > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > > > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > > > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > > > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > > > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > > > absence. > > > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > > > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > > > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.- Hide quoted text -
I don't believe chess is so simple. Why is it that white can make mistakes and draw? That is such a strange argument. If you play someone of equal strength and make mistakes, you will lose with either color, not draw. I just cited Kramnik-Anand. Unless, you are assuming that the black color will not find the best move to capitalize, white cannot make mistakes any more than black.
You mean to tell me that the Sveshnikov can be a powerful weapon when black makes so many concessions? How is this possible? What about the Najdorf? The Benko where black gives a clear pawn. The King's Indian? The first move advantage is a misnomer. In about 20 years, when black theory catches up, it will be a moot point. If Rybka can beat a GM in a match with a pawn and move odds and an IM a pawn and three moves and win with black, what does that say about white's advantage? It doesn't exist. Chess can be won by a tempo, but since tempos are won and lost over the course of the game, the first move is not constitute an automatic advantage. The evolution of the game depends on successive moves.
I believe chess is a fair game. You may believe white has an advantage after move one. Chess is more sophisticated than that as are all martial arts. We will soon see this. Is a sport unequal when a team gets the ball first? Of course not. Someone has to go first in any game, but the conditions and rules are always equal.
On Feb 7, 7:22 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> White can make mistakes and still get a draw. Not so easy for Black. > It is okay for a player to take color in stride, but the organiser has > responsibility to keep colors as even as possible.
> On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in > > the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both > > and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no > > uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white > > has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason > > you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings > > is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course > > the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are > > constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the > > puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember > > the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the > > black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, > > Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play > > for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings > > with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
> > Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> > On Feb 5, 11:12 am, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > > > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > > > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > > > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > > > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > > > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > > > absence. > > > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > > > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > > > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.- Hide quoted text -
chessdrummer, I will quote GM Pachman: Black can on the whole neutralize White's initial advantage within the first twelve to twenty moves. However, the first move has some importance: any inaccuracy, no matter how small, on the part of the second player during the opening generally results in disturbance of the equilibrium; White, on the other hand, can generally allow himself more scope...without risking a seriously unfavorable shift in the equilibrium.
On Feb 7, 8:02 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> I don't believe chess is so simple. Why is it that white can make > mistakes and draw? That is such a strange argument. If you play > someone of equal strength and make mistakes, you will lose with either > color, not draw. I just cited Kramnik-Anand. Unless, you are assuming > that the black color will not find the best move to capitalize, white > cannot make mistakes any more than black.
> You mean to tell me that the Sveshnikov can be a powerful weapon when > black makes so many concessions? How is this possible? What about the > Najdorf? The Benko where black gives a clear pawn. The King's Indian? > The first move advantage is a misnomer. In about 20 years, when black > theory catches up, it will be a moot point. If Rybka can beat a GM in > a match with a pawn and move odds and an IM a pawn and three moves and > win with black, what does that say about white's advantage? It doesn't > exist. Chess can be won by a tempo, but since tempos are won and lost > over the course of the game, the first move is not constitute an > automatic advantage. The evolution of the game depends on successive > moves.
> I believe chess is a fair game. You may believe white has an advantage > after move one. Chess is more sophisticated than that as are all > martial arts. We will soon see this. Is a sport unequal when a team > gets the ball first? Of course not. Someone has to go first in any > game, but the conditions and rules are always equal.
> On Feb 7, 7:22 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > White can make mistakes and still get a draw. Not so easy for Black. > > It is okay for a player to take color in stride, but the organiser has > > responsibility to keep colors as even as possible.
> > On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > > Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in > > > the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both > > > and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no > > > uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white > > > has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason > > > you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings > > > is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course > > > the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are > > > constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the > > > puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember > > > the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the > > > black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, > > > Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play > > > for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings > > > with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
> > > Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> > > On Feb 5, 11:12 am, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > > > > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > > > > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > > > > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > > > > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > > > > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > > > > absence. > > > > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > > > > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > > > > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.- Hide quoted text -
We have to establish what we mean by a mistake. It still depends on many factors. Can the Center Counter or Alekhine possibly be playable if black is moving the same piece all over the board? Of course it can! Can the Sveshnikov be playable with a compromised pawn structure. Yes... it is a deadly weapon. These openings were laughed at in the 19th century. I still don't understand the notion that white suffers less from mistakes than black. I've not heard this before. Any mistake can cause an unfavorable shift in the equilbrium, regardless of the color. It's an equal game, but with an ebb and flow. I believe there are too many factors involved in chess to account for the effect of the first move.
On Feb 8, 3:06 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> chessdrummer, I will quote GM Pachman: > Black can on the whole neutralize White's initial advantage within the > first twelve to twenty moves. However, the first move has some > importance: any inaccuracy, no matter how small, on the part of the > second player during the opening generally results in disturbance of > the equilibrium; White, on the other hand, can generally allow himself > more scope...without risking a seriously unfavorable shift in the > equilibrium.
> On Feb 7, 8:02 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > I don't believe chess is so simple. Why is it that white can make > > mistakes and draw? That is such a strange argument. If you play > > someone of equal strength and make mistakes, you will lose with either > > color, not draw. I just cited Kramnik-Anand. Unless, you are assuming > > that the black color will not find the best move to capitalize, white > > cannot make mistakes any more than black.
> > You mean to tell me that the Sveshnikov can be a powerful weapon when > > black makes so many concessions? How is this possible? What about the > > Najdorf? The Benko where black gives a clear pawn. The King's Indian? > > The first move advantage is a misnomer. In about 20 years, when black > > theory catches up, it will be a moot point. If Rybka can beat a GM in > > a match with a pawn and move odds and an IM a pawn and three moves and > > win with black, what does that say about white's advantage? It doesn't > > exist. Chess can be won by a tempo, but since tempos are won and lost > > over the course of the game, the first move is not constitute an > > automatic advantage. The evolution of the game depends on successive > > moves.
> > I believe chess is a fair game. You may believe white has an advantage > > after move one. Chess is more sophisticated than that as are all > > martial arts. We will soon see this. Is a sport unequal when a team > > gets the ball first? Of course not. Someone has to go first in any > > game, but the conditions and rules are always equal.
> > On Feb 7, 7:22 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > White can make mistakes and still get a draw. Not so easy for Black. > > > It is okay for a player to take color in stride, but the organiser has > > > responsibility to keep colors as even as possible.
> > > On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > > > Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in > > > > the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both > > > > and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no > > > > uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white > > > > has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason > > > > you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings > > > > is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course > > > > the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are > > > > constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the > > > > puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember > > > > the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the > > > > black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, > > > > Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play > > > > for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings > > > > with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
> > > > Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> > > > On Feb 5, 11:12 am, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > > > > > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > > > > > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > > > > > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > > > > > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > > > > > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > > > > > absence. > > > > > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > > > > > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > > > > > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.- Hide quoted text -
The black pieces not being a disadvantage may only apply at the higher levels. At the 2000-2200 ELO kenyan level for the top dogs, white definitely is more preferable. Anyday, anytime. Though these days the computers and the ability to prepare better is making black more and more of a force. Cf my win against Gilruth (annotations coming later) with the black pieces. But it is no question at the kenyan level having white is more comfortable. Advantage of the first move means something.
Perhaps when we get stronger this opinion may change.
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:03:07 -0800 > Subject: [KCF:11606] Re: Support RC, i beg > From: webmas...@thechessdrum.net > To: kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com
> We have to establish what we mean by a mistake. It still depends on > many factors. Can the Center Counter or Alekhine possibly be playable > if black is moving the same piece all over the board? Of course it > can! Can the Sveshnikov be playable with a compromised pawn structure. > Yes... it is a deadly weapon. These openings were laughed at in the > 19th century. I still don't understand the notion that white suffers > less from mistakes than black. I've not heard this before. Any mistake > can cause an unfavorable shift in the equilbrium, regardless of the > color. It's an equal game, but with an ebb and flow. I believe there > are too many factors involved in chess to account for the effect of > the first move.
> On Feb 8, 3:06 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > chessdrummer, I will quote GM Pachman: > > Black can on the whole neutralize White's initial advantage within the > > first twelve to twenty moves. However, the first move has some > > importance: any inaccuracy, no matter how small, on the part of the > > second player during the opening generally results in disturbance of > > the equilibrium; White, on the other hand, can generally allow himself > > more scope...without risking a seriously unfavorable shift in the > > equilibrium.
> > On Feb 7, 8:02 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > > I don't believe chess is so simple. Why is it that white can make > > > mistakes and draw? That is such a strange argument. If you play > > > someone of equal strength and make mistakes, you will lose with either > > > color, not draw. I just cited Kramnik-Anand. Unless, you are assuming > > > that the black color will not find the best move to capitalize, white > > > cannot make mistakes any more than black.
> > > You mean to tell me that the Sveshnikov can be a powerful weapon when > > > black makes so many concessions? How is this possible? What about the > > > Najdorf? The Benko where black gives a clear pawn. The King's Indian? > > > The first move advantage is a misnomer. In about 20 years, when black > > > theory catches up, it will be a moot point. If Rybka can beat a GM in > > > a match with a pawn and move odds and an IM a pawn and three moves and > > > win with black, what does that say about white's advantage? It doesn't > > > exist. Chess can be won by a tempo, but since tempos are won and lost > > > over the course of the game, the first move is not constitute an > > > automatic advantage. The evolution of the game depends on successive > > > moves.
> > > I believe chess is a fair game. You may believe white has an advantage > > > after move one. Chess is more sophisticated than that as are all > > > martial arts. We will soon see this. Is a sport unequal when a team > > > gets the ball first? Of course not. Someone has to go first in any > > > game, but the conditions and rules are always equal.
> > > On Feb 7, 7:22 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > White can make mistakes and still get a draw. Not so easy for Black. > > > > It is okay for a player to take color in stride, but the organiser has > > > > responsibility to keep colors as even as possible.
> > > > On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > > > > Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in > > > > > the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both > > > > > and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no > > > > > uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white > > > > > has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason > > > > > you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings > > > > > is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course > > > > > the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are > > > > > constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the > > > > > puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember > > > > > the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the > > > > > black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, > > > > > Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play > > > > > for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings > > > > > with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
> > > > > Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> > > > > On Feb 5, 11:12 am, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > > > > > > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > > > > > > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > > > > > > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > > > > > > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > > > > > > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > > > > > > absence. > > > > > > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > > > > > > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > > > > > > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.- Hide quoted text -
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There are so many factors such as playing strength of players, player's styles, type of tournament, etc. Controlling for all of that, chess is an equal game. Maybe it is more comfortable to play white for whatever reason, but we have bought the notion white has an advantage. Perhaps if you play symmetrical chess, then white would have an extra move, but chess is rarely (if ever) played that way.
I believe we forget the psychological impression that the bias toward the white pieces has had over the years. Notice the book and magazine diagrams... the play and mate books. All from the white pieces perspective. I believe some players will still believe (psychologically) that they should win with white even if black moved first. Someone on my blog suggested 1.e3 e5 2.e4 as an experiment! I have gone to places where they played "black moved first". It's wierd and disorienting.
I believe this notion that white has to win and black is fighting to draw is a false notion. It was an accepted truth, but it seems to be fading as black is finding resources. If what you say is true, then maybe players there need to focus more on comfort with black. What a weapon that would be!
On Feb 9, 2:47 am, Mehul Gohil <freshscena...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The black pieces not being a disadvantage may only apply at the higher levels. At the 2000-2200 ELO kenyan level for the top dogs, white definitely is more preferable. Anyday, anytime. Though these days the computers and the ability to prepare better is making black more and more of a force. Cf my win against Gilruth (annotations coming later) with the black pieces. But it is no question at the kenyan level having white is more comfortable. Advantage of the first move means something.
> Perhaps when we get stronger this opinion may change.
> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:03:07 -0800 > > Subject: [KCF:11606] Re: Support RC, i beg > > From: webmas...@thechessdrum.net > > To: kenya-chess-forum@googlegroups.com
> > We have to establish what we mean by a mistake. It still depends on > > many factors. Can the Center Counter or Alekhine possibly be playable > > if black is moving the same piece all over the board? Of course it > > can! Can the Sveshnikov be playable with a compromised pawn structure. > > Yes... it is a deadly weapon. These openings were laughed at in the > > 19th century. I still don't understand the notion that white suffers > > less from mistakes than black. I've not heard this before. Any mistake > > can cause an unfavorable shift in the equilbrium, regardless of the > > color. It's an equal game, but with an ebb and flow. I believe there > > are too many factors involved in chess to account for the effect of > > the first move.
> > On Feb 8, 3:06 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > chessdrummer, I will quote GM Pachman: > > > Black can on the whole neutralize White's initial advantage within the > > > first twelve to twenty moves. However, the first move has some > > > importance: any inaccuracy, no matter how small, on the part of the > > > second player during the opening generally results in disturbance of > > > the equilibrium; White, on the other hand, can generally allow himself > > > more scope...without risking a seriously unfavorable shift in the > > > equilibrium.
> > > On Feb 7, 8:02 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > > > I don't believe chess is so simple. Why is it that white can make > > > > mistakes and draw? That is such a strange argument. If you play > > > > someone of equal strength and make mistakes, you will lose with either > > > > color, not draw. I just cited Kramnik-Anand. Unless, you are assuming > > > > that the black color will not find the best move to capitalize, white > > > > cannot make mistakes any more than black.
> > > > You mean to tell me that the Sveshnikov can be a powerful weapon when > > > > black makes so many concessions? How is this possible? What about the > > > > Najdorf? The Benko where black gives a clear pawn. The King's Indian? > > > > The first move advantage is a misnomer. In about 20 years, when black > > > > theory catches up, it will be a moot point. If Rybka can beat a GM in > > > > a match with a pawn and move odds and an IM a pawn and three moves and > > > > win with black, what does that say about white's advantage? It doesn't > > > > exist. Chess can be won by a tempo, but since tempos are won and lost > > > > over the course of the game, the first move is not constitute an > > > > automatic advantage. The evolution of the game depends on successive > > > > moves.
> > > > I believe chess is a fair game. You may believe white has an advantage > > > > after move one. Chess is more sophisticated than that as are all > > > > martial arts. We will soon see this. Is a sport unequal when a team > > > > gets the ball first? Of course not. Someone has to go first in any > > > > game, but the conditions and rules are always equal.
> > > > On Feb 7, 7:22 pm, chessleo2 <chessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > White can make mistakes and still get a draw. Not so easy for Black. > > > > > It is okay for a player to take color in stride, but the organiser has > > > > > responsibility to keep colors as even as possible.
> > > > > On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, chessdrummer <webmas...@thechessdrum.net> wrote:
> > > > > > Certainly the pairings should not be so uneven, but I don't believe in > > > > > > the advantage of white's first move. The rules are the same for both > > > > > > and with perfect play, the game is a draw. Chess is an equal in no > > > > > > uncertain terms. We should merely get it out of our minds that white > > > > > > has some mystical advantage because of the first move. The only reason > > > > > > you see the imbalance is because the amount of literature for openings > > > > > > is predominately on white's side, but the gap is narrowing. Of course > > > > > > the boards in chess books are always from the white side, so we are > > > > > > constantly viewing ourselves from the white side. Remember all the > > > > > > puzzle books with "White to Play in Win" in every position. Remember > > > > > > the classical games of old that ended up in mating attacks on the > > > > > > black king. Those days are over. Openings like the Sveshnikov, Dragon, > > > > > > Benko, Najdorf and even the Petroff show that black certainly can play > > > > > > for a win or hold easily. All I can say is just shore up your openings > > > > > > with white. Forget about the colors... play chess.
> > > > > > Also refer to Anand's destruction of Kramnik in their match...
> > > > > > On Feb 5, 11:12 am, Regional Champ <aadoni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > the torna is continuing tommorow , but i have many grievances . > > > > > > > initially , i was supposed to play more black because of uneven > > > > > > > number of games , i protested on this forum , there was great support > > > > > > > for this cause even though nothing materialised. > > > > > > > although i cannot blame the committee because oyamo and omondi > > > > > > > didn't show up , there are serious concerns arising out of their > > > > > > > absence. > > > > > > > i will be forced to play 5 blacks and 2 whites , should we really > > > > > > > call that competition when my competitors play more white. > > > > > > > please deliberate, am a chesser in distress.- Hide quoted text -
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